I am a Mormon. Mormonism is my spiritual home, and I don’t see that changing. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t times when the mainstream culture of Mormonism (especially as lived in Utah) drives me nuts. I’m often troubled by a self-righteousness I see too often in Mormon culture. Lessons attacking the ‘world’ or ‘worldly values’ tend to make me crazy, for example. They tend to suggest ‘we’re right, they’re wrong,’ on issues that are by no means black and white. Often such comments strike me as politically tinged–difficult, for a life-long liberal. And they tend to attack works of art of genuine distinction and merit. I have a testimony; I also have doubts. I do my best to live according to my best sense of what’s right; I certainly don’t always succeed.
I taught at BYU for twenty years, and loved the kids I worked with. But when I re-connect with many of those former students, I’m starting to realize something important. A great many of them have left the Church, and many others are thinking about it. There is a crisis of faith among young Mormons. I talk to them and one subject keeps coming up, over and over. Doubt.
We’re losing a lot of kids. People I love, people I care about deeply, are separating themselves from the Church, and for reasons that don’t strike me as wholly unreasonable. I wonder sometimes if the culture of Mormonism is well-suited to people of a certain personality type, and ill-suited to other sorts of people. Some people want to know that there are black and white answers to moral questions. They want to believe that people in authority have the answers, that all they have to do is listen and obey. And others–and I count myself as one–see the world in shades of gray. Some of us feel safer when we have space to question and to doubt. Maybe it’s because I taught in the theatre department, and theatre kids don’t feel particularly comfortable in black and white environments. We question, we wonder, we doubt. And we’re bothered when we see our good brothers and sisters who seem perfectly content, who don’t seem to doubt at all. Are they faking it? Are they completely sincere? If so, what’s wrong with me?
Asking ourselves these sorts of questions is, of course, a normal thing, and a good thing, and perhaps some of you who read this blog who are not LDS are wondering what the big deal is. But Mormon culture is not very welcoming to doubt. There’s tremendous social pressure on all of us to never express doubt, to never reveal it, even perhaps to not feel doubt at all. And yet, doubt also seems to be increasing.
Right now in Sunday school, we’re embarked on a year’s study of ‘Church history.’ But the history we study in Sunday school is sanitized, faith promoting, edifying, testimony-building. I can see the reasons for that. But we’re living today in a world where young people are adept at finding absolutely incredible amounts of information and knowledge. It’s really extraordinary, what the internet has done. I love it, I love the era in which we live. I love navigating Wikipedia, just bouncing from strange subject to strange subject. Learning, growing.
But on the internet, it’s very easy to access all sorts of factually accurate information about LDS history that calls into question the mainstream narrative we learn in Sunday School, perhaps because they don’t include context. And when that happens, it can be destructive of innocence, destructive of testimony, and destructive of faith. And bright, wonderful, LDS young people are leaving the Church because of it. Or perhaps not leaving the Church, but questioning, doubting. Not wondering ‘should I stay a Mormon?’ but ‘what kind of Mormon am I becoming?’ And always, this: ‘where do I fit in?’
In a recent General Conference, I remember hearing this: “There is no place in the gospel for doubt.” I’m not quoting that exactly, nor am I citing who said it; I don’t want this to turn into some personal disagreement. But, here’s how I see it. Doubt seems to me much like pain; something unpleasant, but deeply necessary. Three years ago, I got very sick, and nearly died, and I am in considerable, constant pain ever since. I don’t like being sick. I think getting sick really sucks. But I also recognize that getting sick was in many ways a great personal blessing to me. I’ve learned a lot from it, and grown closer to my family, and I’m grateful for it. I would say that pain is certainly part of the gospel. And by the same token, and in the same sense, doubt can be an essential part of mature Christian reflection. Not for everyone, maybe, but for some people, for those who need it.
For example, how can I reconcile the idea that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young were prophets of God with their practice of something that seems to me as repugnant, with the practice of polygamy? Why did it take so long for the Church to overcome its legacy of racism? How can we reconcile varying versions of the First Vision narrative? Good books have been published putting these issues into context, but questions linger in my mind. And I benefit from working through them.
I doubt. Doubting has enhanced my faith. The experience, for me, of church attendance, of scripture reading and prayer, of trying to find an inner place of faith, is one often leavened by cognitive dissonance. And that, in turn, leads me to think and query and generally, to grow. And growth takes place without necessarily resolving difficult questions, or reaching answers, but just by struggling with issues. Sometimes the struggle itself leads to some kind of resolution.
And this crisis of faith in the Church I describe is a real thing, and something which the Church does seem to be addressing, but with babysteps, incrementally. One issue, for example, is the role of women in the Church, the degree to which women feel marginalized. Such websites as Feminist Mormon Housewives and Segullah provide a forum for women to commune together, support each other. Sunstone is, as always, a rock and anchor for liberal Mormons. So is John Dehlin’s Mormon Matters blog and podcast. All these developments are altogether good, but the Church has also responded, most recently by assigning women to give prayers at General Conference for the first time. Another issue for young people today is the Church’s position on homosexuality. Again, the Church has modified its position, especially on the official Church website, but only in small ways.
The biggest issue of them all, in my opinion, is the need for greater transparency when it comes to Church history. Elder Marlin Jenson has spoken up in recent years on the need for transparency, and the publication, by the Church history department, of a new history of the Mountain Meadows Massacre is a welcome development, as well as a deeply sobering read. But there’s much more that needs to be done.
Meanwhile, I intend to continue to do my poor best as well. Let’s talk together, commune together about why we doubt. Let’s not leave the kids who doubt with no place to go for answers. Doubt together, and use the power of cognitive dissonance to work through issues of faith. I am like the grieving father in Mark 9. I believe. Help, thou, mine unbelief.
I so agree with you. It’s tragic, the damage we do by attaching shame to doubt. When we can create an atmosphere where faith means “what you do in the face of not knowing” instead of “what you refuse to confront,” we will have a happier, more powerful people. So many people forget that “God will yet reveal many great and important things” means “just like everything else in God’s creation, even the Church never arrives but continues to grow in understanding” (read: “we may still be getting some things wrong, and may continue to do so forever”). It comforts me to know that the church isn’t an eternal organization.
I agree wholeheartedly with you. No where does it say that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be the end all be all of churches everywhere in the Millenium. All we truly know is that Christ will be King. Your sentiment that the church itself isn’t an eternal organization is something my husband once brought up to me when I was having my doubts and just like this blog post, it ended up strengthening my faith.
Thanks for both your comments! I like that thought, the Church not being an eternal organization.
I have pondered some of these same thoughts recently. It is not so much the doubt, rather the evolution from black and white to gray view of the world. In many ways, I think there is a human change that can occur in an individual, in which, the world, sin and even righteousness become far less defined. I have found this to be true in my life. When this occurred for me, it freed me up to look at events and issues with a much broader view…. frankly it has made it easier for me to be Christ-like in my views and actions. It has allowed me to look at the individual before a behavior or struggle. Believe it or not, it has allowed me to remove some of the religious stressors that have affected me in my life. Are the behaviors that fall outside the guidelines of the gospel still an offense to God, yes. The degree to which they are, between God and that individual, can vary greatly in ways I cannot even comprehend. I can accept that. I think I will chalk it up to a maturity in me. I can see the words of prophets differently now. They are not different than I have heard in the past but I can put them into my new way of thinking and they totally fit in. After having this epiphany, I started watching the words of the leaders of the church carefully and realized that we (LDS Church culture) may be going through a maturity process that will allow for a more Christ-like view. I don’t think this means that they are compromising their values but I think some of the shortfalls of the culture are being replaced with a view that is more mature, inclusive and less prone to black and white labeling of individuals. I cant help but feel that the black and white views that the culture (not necessarily the gospel) has is creating the room for doubt and confusion to exist. It took a long time to get here…I can’t help but feel that this change may take years but I am very interested to see where it goes because it is so much a part of me.
Your response is good. But way too long. Short and to the point would be better.
I think he said it perfectly. The leaders of this church will always be human. But the gospel will always be based on Christ. Man is fallible, Christ is perfect. There are no “shades of gray” when it comes to Christ and His teachings. It says in the scriptures, time and again, He cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. As the world continues to become more and more wicked, choices will have to be made. President Monson has said that we may have to stand alone in our beliefs. As we make our choices, yes we will have to think things through carefully. Satan has made our choices very difficult to see. But when we make a right choice. doubt will never feel bad. And we will never stand alone.
I enjoyed this post. When my husband spoke to our bishop and stake president about his doubts the bishop handled it with a good amount of grace, but our poor stake president was just flummoxed. There didn’t seem to be one thing in his years and years of leadership that equipped him to say anything other than an encouragement to keep praying and reading his scriptures, which were two things that were really, really not helping at that point. I was sad for my husband that he didn’t find more compassion for his doubt, but also sad for that poor stake president who was so uncomfortable and lost when faced with such a common experience.
Excellent points Eric. Doubt, is not necessarily a stand-alone action or behavior. It can be the impetus for additional thought, study, and searching. It could be characterized as uncertainty, thought-in-progress, potentially transient. I agree that it is part of the growth process, and a necessary component of intellectual and spiritual growth.
In some ways, (and this is not a completed thought) it seems as if doubt is like an idling engine. It may be spinning, but not getting you anywhere unless you engage the energy. The individual has to decide where to go.
what you said about the idling engine really resonates with me… when I engage my energy in something positive ( focusing on the faith I do have, loving others, etc) I am so much happier than when I obsess over my doubts.
In my early 20s, I had a dream of my paternal grandfather. He died before I was born, but of course, I always wondered about him and so, I guess, I dreamed of him too. In one dream in particular I asked him, basically, “How can I live a better life?” He told me, “Don’t worry about religion.”
I won’t claim that my deceased grandfather, whom I never met, really visited me in a dream—although I’m open to the idea, or else I probably wouldn’t be telling you this—but his advice was extremely comforting to me. He said, “Don’t worry about religion. It doesn’t matter.” The sense of the statement, in the circumstances of the dream, was that religion matters a lot less in the afterlife than humans think.
It’s difficult to say when I left Mormonism. I began ditching at age 12 and chose to be grounded rather than to go by age 13 and 14. At age 15, then living with my father, I wasn’t pressured anymore. At 16 my bishop and friends tried to talk me into coming again, and I even agreed to give a talk at a youth night. I prepared a talk on service. Everyone felt I did well. The bishop complimented me on my eloquence. And, for some reason, this convinced me never to go again. Why? Well, I’d deliberately avoided scripture quotes in my talk. I purposely sought out secular perspectives, as a challenge—and to see if anyone would notice. The whole experience proved to me that it’s completely possible to think through what it means to be a good person without religious authority. What’s more good than service?
But why did I ditch in the first place? The answer is undramatic and unimpressive. I didn’t have an intellectual reason. I think that I was just a contrarian little boy. The closest I got to an intellectual reason was an argument with a Sunday school teacher about whether I’d have to live in any of three afterlife kingdoms. My position was, that if I had free will, I could live anywhere I wanted in the universe. His position was that I was either with God or against him, and that if I didn’t want to live in Heaven, then I must want to live in Outer Darkness. I said if I was really free, and God really respected my freedom of choice, he wouldn’t force me to live with Him or force me into eternal misery. I was like a spiritual Switzerland.
But that dream has probably shaped me more than anything else, along with another dream I had of Jesus. I once dreamt of walking through a ruined city. A man and woman pulled me into an abandoned building and told me to wait. They disappeared and came back with the dead body of Jesus Christ wrapped in a shroud. They laid the body on the floor and told me to lie down next to it. As I did, my whole body began to vibrate and I shot out of my body. I shot up and up and up into a blue sky and I felt incredibly happy. And I thought, “This is Christ.” I felt like the dream was telling me to move beyond forms.
In a way, the LDS church does this, in its aversion to iconifying the crucified Jesus. For me, though, Mormons are still too literal. It isn’t that I understand Christianity to be nothing but metaphor, but more that I think belief is underrated—and that spiritual metaphors are at least as important as facts. I think this because I’ve seen as a dramatist that transcendence (out of selfish bestiality and into responsible compassion) can be accomplished by completely fabricated imagery. At least, emotionally. And, I suppose, because I believe (there, I said it) that if you can accomplish that transition it doesn’t matter how you did it, or what you believed while doing it. If the soul exists, and its future depends on anything, I suspect it depends on what it does, not what it thinks. Which is, of course, what I was taught to think as a boy. That works are what matter. And why this would ever stop being the case, I can’t imagine.
A few years ago I was researching Gnostic Christianity and I came across a Nazarean proverb: “Good is the good to the good.” Which is to say, what’s good is good, why argue about whether the idea came from the prophet? The Mormon way of saying this is: “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.”
Your story of your dream caught my eye. The night before being baptized I saw Jesus in my dream who told me that it doesn’t matter what church I go to, and that He is everywhere. I remembered the dream only after being baptized. I learnt a lot from Mormon church and I am exactly in that place of doubt that the author of the blog is describing. I do not want to completely leave the church. After all if God is not about religion but religion helps remember the values might as well stay where I am. I just don’t know how to fit in now.
appreciate your comments and your honesty. you fit in by knowing that almost everyone sitting next to you in church also has doubts- that anyone who is paying attention has honest doubts at some time.
I always end up at the same place. For me, I really do believe in the divinity of the Book of Mormon. It is timeless: it provides answers and comfort to every situation, it is easy to understand and yet has many layers, etc. If the Book of Mormon is God-given, then by association, I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Not a perfect person, not infallible, but a prophet who saw God. If I believe these two things, then I can let the other things rest until I work through answers. Some have come, some answers I am still waiting on, but it doesn’t make me crazy. Good luck to you.
Why does JS get a “by” for being an adulterer?
Thank you Iaparkour, you have concisely described exactly where I am right now. I have no desire to completely leave the church, I believe that the mormon faith has and continues to do me good, although faced with certain facts I cannot (right now) bring myself to be fully immersed into all of the mormon requirements. I cannot shake the feeling that God is not about religions (as you put it) but rather about truth and character.
Erina
Thanks so much for sharing these provocative thoughts. I love your dreams. And I love the spiritual intensity of your plays.
Best post I’ve ever read I wish this was a more open discourse!!
I’m a convert and was an intense gospel studier from the time I joined the church (in high school). From my experience, so many “doubts” or misunderstandings people use to drive themselves out of the Church wouldn’t have been an issue at all if they spent the same amount of time or more studying actual gospel topics and the scriptures. I studied the gospel 3-8 hours a days for three and a half years before my mission. Many things that bothered missionaries or caused them great concern didn’t even phase me because I had already learned through study or revelation the solutions. So called “intellectuals” should spend their time studying the best thinking of prophets and the Lord instead of the best thinking of atheists and apostates.
Beautifully said.
So-called gospel studiers should be more Christlike.
I am so happy that you have answers to your questions and concerns. That level of confidence has always eluded me. I was born and raised in the church. My parents and Sunday school teachers taught me from the scriptures from before I can remember. I’ve studied the scriptures for as long as I’ve been able to read. I’ve had powerful spiritual experiences that I cannot deny.
At the same time, I have not always found answers to my questions. There have been times in my life when I have put the most effort, the most sincere desire for inspiration, and received nothing. Then other times when I have not been praying, or thinking of God at all, when I have felt the spirit.
I find that the counsel I have been given on feeling the spirit does not result in the promised experiences. I have felt the spirit. I know what it is, and I do not find in in diligent scripture study, or heartfelt prayer. I find it in occasional moments with my family, or unexpectedly though common tasks.
I am glad that I have the knowledge I have from a childhood of study. I am grateful for the spiritual experiences God has given me. Ultimately, the path that feels right, that seems to lead to contentment, does not lead the way I see other church members going. There is no Iron Rod, but the gentle flickering light in my heart.
Maybe I’m just one of those spoken of in 1 Nephi 8:23 who lost the path in the mist of darkness. If so, it does me little good to follow others who may also be lost. That is the nature of doubt. I’ll just keep searching for the Path, and feeling for the Iron Rod.
Beautifully said.
“Thinkers” like you always have the assumption that people who disagree just aren’t studying enough. I’ve more than put in my time studying and come to very different conclusions from you. If you spent your life learning, listening and playing only one song on a piano, of course you are surprised to learn that there is other music.
Not cool, bro.
Your negative bias against atheists and appstates limits you. We’ve been conditioned to think the worst about these two classifications of people. If I studied ONLY Ford cars for “3-8 hours a day,” refusing to even acknowledge the existence (validity) of any other, of course I’d conclude that Ford was the one for me.
Every religion by nature is in danger of becoming a recursive to black and white thinking. It boxes the complexities of life into trite rules while avoiding issues of actual value. Mere obedience will never satisfy the law of heaven. an automaton is no more capable of salvation than a rock. Therefore doubt, and learning, and Growth are necessary parts of religion.
When Mormonism is used as a tool to force us to Obey without helping us understand Why. Mormonism itself becomes the very confinement that keeps one spiritually stunted not in essence, but in execution. as such, many feel, myself included, that in modern Mormon culture, any doubt, any free thought is squelched by the hive mind which values conformity over reason. Every correlated lesson, every overly simple answer, every forced obedience, every violation of man’s agency leaves one with a single thought, “brothers and sisters these things ought not to be.”
One is left to wonder if the correlation committee, and by association the 12, is so inherently naive, or so arrogantly assured that they need not believe that there are thinking, rational, creative beings being hobbled by their absurdities. They obfuscate the truth, dissuade deep contemplation, and hide from reason for fear that it may cause people to leave when it is these very actions which have driven my generation away in droves.
Religion should be the philosophy of life. Too often it is taught with such triviality and obvious error as to dissuade the discerning mind from further contemplation. In the end, I guess the feeling i get is that the spirit and flesh are one, and the church has tried to convert the spirit without converting the man.
Ohhh yes, lets not forget. the internet, much like the printing press which presaged the downfall of catholic hegemony, will portend much the same fate for a Mormonism which does not adapt.
Very, well said. Love it. Where is a “like” button when you need it? One cannot assume that doubt is only a “bad” thing that needs to be overcome with the magic of faith.
I thought the op was an interesting read, but I found the conclusion very different than my own experience. When I encountered the non-sanitized version of LDS church history after my mission, it took me onto a path that led right out of the Church, and then swiftly out of any belief in God at all. Contrary to the anonymous convert’s assertion that “doubt” comes from “not studying hard enough,” I found that the more I studied, and the harder I tried to hold on to Mormonism, the clearer it was that I was grasping for air.
It was terrifying at the time, but I’m glad it happened now. I feel like I can actually live genuinely now that I’m not bound by arbitrary commandments and the writings of primitive people in the ancient middle east. I feel less childish in my worldview; I now understand that meaning is something that comes from within. I take responsibility for my meaning, for my values, and for my moral judgments, and I’m free to choose my own course through life without the aid (or approval) of an unseen master.
Then what is your sincere belief about the source of the book of Mormon?
-Joseph Smith just made it up
-The Soloman Spaulding theory
-JS had a time machine and just wrote what he saw in ancient America
“He read the book,” Proctor hissed, offering a low-five. “This guy is gold!”
Cadeau appeared moments later carrying a sleek aluminum briefcase. After donning a pair of white cotton gloves, he carefully lifted out a small protective box made of clear acrylic and placed it on the desk. The giant lowered a shade against the unexpected sunshine then switched on a desk lamp. The object he’d gone to such lengths to protect was a book. The orange leather cover was scuffed and fading. Cadeau carefully opened it and pulled back the flyleaf.
The title was handwritten in French. ‘Le Livre Secret de Madoc. The Secret Book of Madoc.
“America may be the land of the free today,” he explained, “but centuries ago it was an asset of kings and queens. Royalty runs on debt and riches from the new world had already shifted the balance of power in Europe. During the late fifteen-hundreds, Elizabethan Empire builders sought to assert their Title Royal, or legal entitlement, to the American continent and invalidate historic Spanish and Holy Roman claims by precedent of an early Welsh explorer named Prince Madoc.
“The Madoc or Madog tradition was known throughout Europe and the New World, but a high-ranking adviser to Queen Elizabeth, a shadowy Welsh mystic and esoteric occultist named Dr. John Dee, was first to suggest exploiting the tale for its political value. The Secret Book of Madoc details the travels and trials of a fabled Welsh Prince and is said to have been translated from engraved golden and brass plates by Dee himself. It asserts a prior claim to America pre-dating the planting of Ferdinand’s flag by over three centuries. The exquisite object you see before you,” Cadeau continued, “is a work of historical fiction and a fraud attributed to a legendary kook.
“The Secret Book of Madoc is the chronicle of Prince Madoc – an adventurer and colonizer who fled his ancestral lands to escape the inter-family genocide ignited by his brothers upon the death of their father, Owen Gwynedd, King of North Wales. Myth and misinformation have obscured the Madoc legend throughout the centuries, but this much is accepted by scholars and historians: in 1170 A.D., a prince named Madoc relinquished his claim on the Welsh crown and set out across darkened seas, sailing under the red cross of the Templar Knights and armed with a Templar chart and compass. Madoc made at least two successful Atlantic crossings during his lifetime. Prior to his departure Prince Madoc had served as the Grand Master of The Welsh Rosicrucian Order, the Cambriae.
“Elizabethan England enjoyed grassroots support for their Madoc claims due to the many documented reports of mysterious blue-eyed, pale-skinned native Americans said to be speaking in dialectic Welsh – a misnomer supported by Sir Walter Raleigh and other notables of his day. The existence of the Mandan tribe has never been a matter of dispute among historians, nor is there any shortage of information about John Dee. And although events intervened to prevent Dr. Dee’s scheme from being realized,” Cadeau said, “hand-written copies of his Secret Book of Madoc survive to this day – one famously transcribed by the pen of Sir Isaac Newton and accompanied by a certificate of authenticity from the Arsenal Library, dated January 17, 1822. The certificate is signed by no less a light than Charles Nodier, noted librarian and legendary Napoleonic foe.”
I couldn’t speak for Proctor, but I wasn’t tracking.
“I believe you’ll find Newton’s personal copy predates the publication of The Book of Mormon by eight years, though Dee’s original was first written in the mid sixteenth century.”
Cadeau took compassion on our bewilderment.
“I only bring this to your attention because much of what is found in The Book of Mormon is also contained nearly word for word in Dee’s Secret Book of Madoc.”
Proctor and I eyed each other.
“If you’ll open to Nephi, 1,1,1, I can provide an example.”
Proctor corrected our host. “It’s pronounced First Nee-Fi.”
“Allow me to translate,” Cadeau said. We followed along in our books as he read along in his.
I, Madoc, born of goodly parents, was taught somewhat in the learning of my father, nevertheless, having seen many afflictions, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days as a vagabond upon the face of the earth.
The words in 1 Nephi were virtually identical.
“That can’t be right,” Proctor countered. “The book’s a fraud. Right? You said so yourself.”
“Yes,” Cadeau agreed. “A fraud that would seem to pre-date the publication of Joseph Smith’s famous book by a century and a half. I’ve been interested to see if you gentlemen might be able to clear the matter up for me.”
“You’re right,” Elder Proctor conceded. “That’s a bender.”
Cadeau glanced down toward me. “There’s more if you’ll hear it.”
Proctor appeared as calm as a dawn in Eden, so I followed his lead.
“Perhaps you’d be kind enough to read along in Mormon 6:6.”
I opened to the proper page on the first try and held up my scriptures to prove it. Cadeau set his book on the desktop and rotated it toward us.
“Here’s what it says:
Behold, I, Madoc, began to wax old, and seeing the struggle of my people against the people of Coztlan, I made this record of the plates of Atl, and hid them up in the bowels of the hill beneath the temple of Uznal, save the plates of my people Cymry which I give unto my son, Mor Awnyry, that he and his descendants might forever know their source.”
“Mor Awnyry?” I exclaimed. “Moronri? There’s just no way. That’s practically Moroni.”
Cadeau closed the book. “Yes, intriguing isn’t it? Were we to read further, you’d find that the indegenious peoples called Madoc by the name: Mor Mywn – Great One in one dialect, and He who crossed the great water in another. Mormyn either way.”
“Mormon.”
The giant agreed. “Having now studied The Book of Mormon as well, I can tell you the two accounts overlay each other in several aspects and must derive from a common source.”
A wall clock ticked in the silence like a time bomb.
“Remarkable parallels at very least,” he said. “Bear in mind, this proves nothing. For all the world knows, the ink on my edition of The Secret Book of Madoc is still wet.”
“Exactly,” I agreed.
“But it isn’t wet.” Cadeau carefully returned the book to it’s case. “This volume came to us by the most direct means possible and has remained in our uninterrupted control since that time.”
“Who’s to say your Secret Book of Madoc isn’t a phony concocted by enemies of the early church to discredit the Prophet?”
Cadeau nodded. “Please don’t misunderstand my intention here. I’m making no effort to convince you. You’re correct. All writing is fiction and words are the weapons of art. I can’t verify this or any book’s authenticity, although I’m personally satisfied with its provenance as pertains to our ownership of it. That having been said, I just find these verbatim passages from a long-dead fraud included in Mr. Smith’s book bedeviling. That’s all.”
I reacted to the challenge emotionally. “Bedeviling may apply more accurately to your book, sir. I have just as much faith in my prophet as you have in your provenance. You think it’s impossible for the Devil to write a book of his own?”
Cadeau answered with tranquility. “I understand you are duty bound by your faith to discredit all inconvenient revelation, but your devil argument is weak and can just as easily be turned back on you.”
“Cool book, though.” Proctor was turning the pages with gloved fingers.
The gardener expressed polite concession and clapped his hands to herald a new moment. “Well, it seems I’ve completed my explanation of the spurious origins of my mysterious book. Perhaps you’d be kind enough to reciprocate.”
http://www.2byevanlord.com
My experience as well. Glad to know there are others out there like me who, once the ball got rolling, didn’t stop questioning until real answers were found. The church is bigoted and a guilt fest.
I have always found it interesting that Moroni says to “ask if these things are NOT true”. I take that as a the Lord understanding and using doubt to define faith. Thank you for your honesty these real thought processes, which confronting almost seem taboo. I too have trouble with the way most Utah Mormons perceive the world around them, especially our good neighbors outside of our faith. I served a mission in South Carolina and I realized what many feel in our area, as being one of the minority. The funny thing is that I still get occasionally get those “outsider” stares, being a long hair in Utah county.
There’s so much I want to say but don’t know where to start. Maybe with my idea that doubt is not necessarily doubt in the truthfulness of the gospel, but merely a question that needs answering through thought, study and prayer. I’ve done this with several tough topics and found resolutions that are completely harmonious with the gospel (not necessarily with Utah culture) and help me have a stronger testimony of the gospel.
Being a California Mormon, and having gone through the Proposition 8 election, my understanding of the gospel, along with many in my area, was tested greatly. How do we reconcile our belief in traditional marriage while maintaining a Christ-like love of those who are homosexual. Each of us came up with our own reconciliation but I know I have a stronger testimony of the gospel because I know that God loves each and every person for who they are (though not necessarily their actions) and simply wants the best for them, like any good father. Maybe we don’t understand just yet how that works with homosexuality and marriage, but we’re getting there. I have heard there is a gay bishop in San Francisco. If that is true, it’s a strong testimony that anyone can live the gospel despite their own characteristics that might pull them away from God’s will. I am so glad that the culture of the church is catching up with the true gospel and that our understanding is growing in this area.
I’ve gone through long thought processes on this, abortion, polygamy and others and when I do, keeping the basics of the gospel and Christianity at the heart of my understanding, I find that the gospel is completely true, though the topics are not at all black and white. There are nuances, there are caveats, there are things difficult to grasp at first if you try to shove the gospel into the wrong shaped hole. Sometimes you have to re-shape the hole!
I agree that study and prayer are important – as well as reason. And if the answer you get at first doesn’t make sense, ruminate on it and it will form in your mind and become as clear as day – but I do believe you must seek the Spirit so that God can open that understanding up to you. I actually explore some of these issues on my blog, as well. My short series on God’s Plan and Politics is here if anyone’s interested: http://jennysjaunts.blogspot.com/2012/10/applying-gods-plan-to-politics-part-1.html
Thank you, Eric. I love that scripture in Mark. Let’s keep on keepin’ on…
Indeed.
After my mission, I fell in love with a non-member woman. One thing led to another and we became intimate before we were married. Back then, it was normal procedure for a Melchizedek priesthood holder to speak to his bishop and the stake president, as a part of the repentance process. My bishop, who I had only known for a few months (I was at school) was very understanding and compassionate during my initial interview. The stake president, however, said something astonishing to me. After confessing my mistake, he told me, “You have failed the test of life!” At the time, I thought that this was normal, since what I had done in the eyes of the Church was very serious. When I related that later to my bishop in a subsequent meeting, he was stunned. Fortunately for me, my bishop was the one who worked with me throughout the process.
Looking back, I know now that while well meaning in his attempt to convey the gravity of the sin and the difficult road ahead of me, this stake president was very wrong. The test of life is not determined by merely one erroneous act. Were that the case, there would be no need for repentance, since you could not make it back regardless of any effort. And I made it back.
As for doubts, I’ve had many over the years, but they’ve never driven me from the Church. It is the human condition to question, to wonder if something is right or wrong–true or false. Only the sociopathic have no concept or caring for this, and fortunately I’m not in that category.
Interestingly, in a stake priesthood session back in the early 90′s, a visiting Regional Rep asked for a show of hands of any men sitting in the audience had ever had a period of time of inactivity due to doubt. By my rough count, more than 80 percent raised their hands, including two members of the stake presidency and the speaker himself. He went on to explain his situation and gave one of the most inspired speeches I’ve ever heard on overcoming doubt. I have thought back on that speech many times over the years.
I am grateful I have the capacity to doubt. It has allowed me to explore the reasons for why I believe the way I do. It has tempered my understanding and allowed that greatest of all gifts, compassion, to be a strong part of me. God gave me a mind to think, reason, and test. I am thankful that He had that amount of trust in me, to just wind me up and let me loose.
I don’t want to be drawn into a ‘thing’ on some guy’s blog about the problems I have with Mormonism, but I’ll answer your question. I don’t accept the book of Mormon as a historical account of ancient America, and I certainly don’t think it is divine. I find it much more plausible that the book is a work of fiction written by Joseph (written alone, plagiarized from other sources, or written in cooperation with others) than the official church story.
You’ve got me hoping for option 3, though. Joseph Smith figured out time travel. Now THAT would be something!
You honestly believe that the Book of Mormon is fiction and have studied fair amounts of pro and anti literature in reaching this conclusion? So you are saying that all of the textual and archeological evidence is purely coincidence? -As well as the bible.
I was an atheist before I joined the Church. Only convert in my direct family. I could never understand what makes people who have the truth want to walk away from it. That’s an inherent risk of agency though…
What textual and archeological evidence?
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Totally agree! Horses???? Metallurgy???? Nothing has ever been found to substantiate the BOM…Add this to JS and his phillandering, and that when asked about these obvious mis-truths we are told to “accept it on faith, and that if we feel the spirit it must be true”. A bunch of hogwash.
I was a bishop, sent three boys on missions and God turned my heart two years ago. No I did not commit some egregious sin. My wife and I are still together and happy. I urge any of you who are doubting (and those of you who are not) to sincerely, objectively look for the truth.
God gave us a brain and the BIBLE…The TRUE word of God.
‘It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ 2 Nephi 25:23???? HUH????
What can we do to be saved???? What was it the Savior did on the cross? He took upon the sins of the world…And no, it was not in the Garden…Another Mormon misnomer.
Yes, I am angry that I allowed myself to be deceived for so long. Research (not in some LDS manual) for yourselves the truths about who JS is…and who the Savior is. Will you put your trust in some phillandering fraud, or the Savior of the world?
I go through cycles, which is healthy I think. I always come back to the same conclusion and that is for very real reasons there are aspects of the church I do not want to give up. Those pieces keep me sane in crazy times and give me hope when things are hopeless. There are a million questions my kids ask me when they doubt, that I can’t answer. The bottom line is if they are always striving to be good people and to seek truth what else could a parent wish for their child? I’d rather they be inactive and be this person than active and have no depth or substance to their belief. Doubting means there is depth in their thinking. I think it is healthy.
Agreed!
Striving to be good people??? We are saved through the Savior’s perfection.
I felt like much of what you wrote is exactly what my mind thinks but could not have put into such perfect words. And then it got much more optimistic than I currently am
But this was lovely. Well said, nuanced, complicated, real, and so loving and kind and encouraging for me. Reading the comments, I admit that I hear (and say) the same things about the topic over and over, but it is still always so nice to hear about others who feel or have felt how I do and have. One certain anonymous comment above, however, I think captures where we are realistically with how we “intellectuals” or “doubters” or whatever, are seen by most people in the church. Assuming the person read your original post, I am upset, but not surprised, by how much they did not hear what you said. So there I am- I am so glad to hear such optimistic and nuanced views as you have, and I’m so glad to have open arms like that in the church somewhere. But then I read things like that and I’m right back to square one.
Eric, I read your entry with great interest and found it very relevant to me, a non-Mormon, as well. As other faiths have also developed cultures of “Doubt as a betrayal of the Faith,” this sounds very familiar. My faith is not as defined as yours, but all around I see self-professed people of faith presenting themselves to the world with the attitude of “If you’re not with us, you’re against us,” and being “with us” includes the absolute necessity of agreeing with huge, all-invasive social and political positions that must be followed to the letter, and if not, well…the doubt of an individual about any such positions leads to the doubt in the faith of those who might doubt and question any of them…any at all.
It’s not unique to Mormonism, and, unfortunately, it’s pervasive and deeply historic. Doubt takes courage. Stay courageous, my old friend.